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Summary
October 7, 2023, saw the attack on Israel by the terrorist group Hamas. Conflict is nothing new to this region, but for Americans, the way in which the coverage has been handled shifts with each news outlet. Did Israel bring this attack on themselves through an alleged colonization of Palestine? Is Hamas the freedom fighters some outlets make them out to be or something more sinister? In this podcast series, we at Mama Bear Apologetics are tackling the top questions you have about the Israel-Palestine conflict to better equip you to know and explain this issue with your children.
In the first podcast Hillary, Amy, and fellow apologist David Wolcott cover the top terms and definitions tossed around the nightly news. You’ll hear why Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing, and why these two are being conflated to promote an “us vs. them” ideology. Listeners will also get a brief history of God’s people to answer the question everyone has been asking, “Who’s land is it anyway?” These set the scene for the second upcoming podcast where Hillary and Amy will address the bigger themes at play: the spiritual battles around the attacks on Israel, and how critical theory is nurturing support for Hamas in Gen Z.
Main Points Covered
- What is the difference between Hamas and Palestinians?
- What is the difference between Israelis and Jews?
- How and when did the Israeli/Palestine conflict start?
- What advice can we give our kids in navigating information and conversations around this topic?
People and Resources Mentioned
- Ben Shapiro Talk
- Genesis 12:2
- Genesis 17:4
- Genesis 17:19
- 1917 Balfour Declaration
- Google Ngram Viewer
- A Brief History of Palestine
- 2000-2200 BC Abraham was shown land of Canaanites by God, but doesn’t possess it (but lives there)
- They all leave when Joseph is in Pharaoh’s court (2100 BC)
- Jews come to conquer the land under Joshua 1300 BC
- 1000 BC – time of David
- 722 was the first exile (Assyrian exile), but not everyone left
- 586 BC next exile (Babylonian exile)
- 63 BC = first takeover by the Romans
- 70 AD – destruction of the temple
- 135 AD – Romans called the land “Palestine” as a slap in the face to Israel, but never referred to a “people group”
- 7th century AD – the founding of Islam – Arabs started claiming ownership of the land because Jerusalem as the 3rd holiest place (outside of Mecca and Medina)
- Palestinians were never referred to as a “people group” until 1977. Zahir Muhsein of the PLO, Palestinian Liberation Organization said “The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.” (PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw.)
Unfamiliar Vocabulary
- Hamas vs Palestine
- Hamas is a terrorist group that is the ruling body over Palestine.
- Palestinians are a group of people dwelling in Palestine – Jews and Arabs
- Edomites/Arabs are the descendants of Esau.*
- Israeli vs Jewish: Anyone who is a citizen of Israel is considered an Israeli. Jewish is an ethnic people group. And some people call themselves Jewish, but are specifically referring to the religion.1See the blog series by Lindsey Medenwaldt about Judaism on the Mama Bear website. The first article “A Crash Course in Judaism” can be found here: https://mamabearapologetics.com/crash-course-judaism/.
- Zionists believe Israel is the land of the Jewish people and is their heritage right.
- Christian Nationalism: the belief that the American nation is defined by Christianity, and that the government should take active steps to keep it that way.
- TikTok Activism: a form of activism on the TikTok social media platform
- Reparations: making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.
- *We incorrectly said the edomites were descendants of Ishmael in the episode.
Quotable Quotes
“It’s important to be talking to our kids and asking them to have people define their terms for them. A lot of times this will slow the conversation down, and that’s a good thing.” – Hillary Morgan Ferrer
“You can possibly get swept up into something that you don’t really know what you’re advocating for. So that’s what you want to help your kids be watchful of — what are they defining, what are they assuming about another people group, what are the conclusions that are being made?” – Amy Davison
We are all in this together, so sometimes our posts are a bit of all of us.
Of course this is all partisan Zionist anti-Christ propaganda….
But we expected this from this source.
Anybody who would use Ben Shapiro for anything except kindling is totally walking contrary to God in Christ.
Hey Greg! If you listen to the podcast, we state at the beginning that we don’t necessarily endorse everything that Ben Shapiro says or does, but that he had a pretty good timeline in this one video. We had an independent source check out all the primary sources that Ben mentioned. We did not “platform” him so that people could follow him. We used his video resource because he provides accurate information. When we are searching for information, that is our main criteria: is this accurate–despite who it comes from. That being said, if you find anything that is inaccurate that we need to fix, please don’t hesitate to speak up! We always welcome criticism if we have misspoken.
Greg, as to your response to Kari (it’s not letting me post underneath your response) Thank you for that perspective! We absolutely welcome any pieces to the puzzle that we may be missing. Amy has been currently researching this exact question. If you have any sources you’d like to cite here for us to add to the research, please feel free to post it! As long as it’s an official source and not an op-ed piece.
Hilary,
I appreciate your effort. There are a LOT of moving parts here.
Part 1 – Genetics – You will not find any neat scenario – the idea that there is some kind of neat Arab-Israeli genetic distinction is silly. The genetics are all over the place. There is no neat line from Edomites or any such thing – all that is pious nonsense.
I would encourage reviewing actual secular scholars – both Jewish and Palestinian and unrelated – focusing on archeology and actual science – rather than partisan propaganda. Ben Shapiro is about as low of dreg that one could possibly drink – he is a political hack – nothing more. The call of Christ is vastly higher.
Thanks,
Greg
Really great podcast, I’ve been hoping to see something since the conflict kicked off. So thank you for finally tackling it.
I appreciate the history/timeline you showed, but I think I have more questions about the land occupation from 633 BC onward and why Arabs feel entitled to the land today. Hamas is political, but has ties to Islam (or is it Muslims- not sure if definition is required like Israel vs Jewish). Muslims tie their history a lot to Muhammad (maybe more so than Ishmael). I found early conquests of Muhammad in 633 in my research but trying to learn more about what happens after his death. hoping to hear some clarification on the “other side of the argument”.
Kari,
No one “owns” the land other than the people who actually held title to the individual pieces of property.
The issue is that the Zionist rampaged through the area after the Ottomans lost in WW1 – engaged in significant terrorist activity including against the British who finally gave up and left much of the decision making to the UN.
Many American and Israeli Jews fully recognized the murder and theft on individual Palestinian property owners. THAT is the issue.
Ask yourself some time – where exactly did all the Palestinian Refugee camps from??
Before accepting slanted reporting – please see Prov18.17 – everyone sounds like they make sense – until a second witness is brought forth (loosely translated).
They have been at war with each other for thousands of years, in 6 AD, and then pick it up now?
same thing: They want each other dead. That’s it.
Mathew – that is simply and completely historically inaccurate.
As the Word of God tells us – and seems profitable – “get knowledge/understanding”
Matthew, I would suggest you look up the details from both conservative and progressive sites (to get the full picture) about the Camp David summit. Israel agreed to give up almost all the land to the Palestinians, except the wailing wall and a few larger Israeli settlements. It was a two-state solution with the Palestinians coming out very much on top. It was turned down because of the three nos: “No peace with Israel; No recognition of Israel; No negotiations with Israel.” The Israeli government has tried to settle this issue for decades, and you can’t negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate. While I do not doubt that there are atrocious acts committed by individual Israelis (as in all societies), the government of Israel has bent over backward for peace. Do you know any other country that goes knocking on doors and warning citizens before bombing “A bomb is coming. Evacuate!” What else can they do to show that they are trying to save civilian lives?
OK. But, how is that even possible?
I believe Edomites are the descendants of Esau, not Ishmael.
“These are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in the hill country of Seir.”
Genesis 36:9 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/gen.36.9.ESV
Laura,
Ahh! I even double-checked that before we put it in the podcast and trusted the wrong person. 😛 That being said, I was groaning last night to my husband “Ugh! I can’t believe I got that wrong”. haha! Thanks for the correction. 🙂
Thank you for addressing such a complex and sensitive topic. Your efforts to clarify key terms and provide historical context are commendable.
Thank you! We do our best!
Thank you for the great overview of a v.complex, divisive topic. You handled it with grace and facts; the quotes, resources and links are invaluable to being informed and further research. The fact that you are fully upfront about the sources and unbiased, genuine about any mis-step (we are all human!). Thank you again for this podcast
OK. So how do we explain to children that little children are being killed? How can we help the innocents that are being harmed in these battles?