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I (Hillary) titled this podcast/blog about a thousand times because I couldn’t quite figure out how to summarize our main message. The messy art of kingdom community? No. I hate the word messy. It’s so misused. (But this topic is legit “messy” if there ever were one.) Grieving with those who grieve? Yes, but that’s only part of it. “An invitation to discuss racial tensions?” Too sterile.
In the end, I took a walk and prayed, and the name came to me. It’s a phrase that has been with me for years. My friend, Melissa Pellew, even has a Facebook group with this title.
We will not be divided.
THAT is what I want to communicate. At every turn, I see the enemy trying to divide us. Fueling the miscommunication, the ignorance, the reactions, fueling the fear. But no.
We will not be divided.At every turn, I see the enemy trying to divide us. Fueling the miscommunication, the ignorance, the reactions, fueling the fear. But no. #WeWillNotBeDivided Click To Tweet
We are the body of Christ. And Scripture is clear that kingdom community will look like “every tongue, tribe, and nation” (Revelation 7:9). I can hardly wait for the day where we will revel in our differences without the fear of sin, without the fear of offense, without preconceptions, unperceived assumptions, discomfort, or unfamiliarity. What will that look like? I’m not totally sure, but I know for dang sure it will not look like our world right now.
Mama bears, these are scary times. First COVID-19, now this. And let me be clear: these racial tensions are not a new phenomenon. They are just being recorded now. And for that, I’m thankful. Thankful that we do not have the luxury of looking away.
This podcast is not an open-and-shut case of how to deal with racial tensions. Amy and I are not mom-splaining how to do it all right. It is an invitation to conversation. It is an invitation to become more like the kingdom of God. It’s the beginning of an ongoing conversation, and we invite your feedback. From all our mama bears. Our white mama bears, our mama bears of color, black, Latino, Asian. ALL of us need to engage. But what will that look like?
1. Listening to hear, not listening to respond
Everyone wants to have an answer. Everyone wants to declare the problem. And is it okay to try to make sense of everything? Absolutely. But how well are we listening? We need to LISTEN first. Are we listening to hear or listening to respond? #WeWillNotBeDivided Click To Tweet
2. Be willing to be offended… and to offend
These conversations need to happen, and in our “cancel culture,” if a person says the wrong thing, we write them off. But let’s be honest — we are going to both offend and be offended. That’s a fact. And being willing to accidentally offend or be offended is how community is built. Just sweeping the conversation under the rug is not an option. If we are so afraid of offending or being offended, we will be right back where we are, right now.
So, this is an open invitation for all voices. Will misspeak in this podcast? It’s possible. Let us know. We are trying, and we are willing to accidentally offend if it means our community surrounds us and corrects us. Because that is how community is built.
This is an invitation for conversation within the mama bear community, to band around something that transcends race and politics: our shared identity in Christ. Our collective identity as mama (and papa!) bears raising our kids to be Christ-followers. As long as our differences are more important than our similarities, community is impossible. But building kingdom community means that we will misspeak, miscommunicate, misconstrue, and misunderstand. If we fear these more than we long for communication, then we have already lost the fight.Until we are willing to both offend and be offended, we will never have real communication, which means we can never have real community. #WeWillNotBeDivided Click To Tweet
3. Whatever your knee-jerk reaction is, investigate the opposite
I’ll be frank: I’ve been frustrated with some people’s reactions saying “wait until all the facts are in.” It’s lazy. Should we draw conclusions without all the facts? No. But neither should we ignore the facts that are available now, waiting for a narrative that confirms our suspicions, whatever our suspicions may be.
Is your knee-jerk reaction to stay out of the fray? Maybe this is an invitation to enter the pain of others, even if you lose a few nights sleep. Is your reaction to have all the answers? We invite you to listen to other voices first. Is your first reaction to assume that every one of another race is full of hatred? We grieve if that has been your experience, but lovingly ask for you to not let those experiences define all future experiences.
We all have confirmation bias going on. Let’s just own it and choose to do better, on purpose, and in community.
This podcast will cover some of the events that led to the recent riots we’ve seen not only in the United States but throughout the Western world. We will discuss the importance of having difficult conversations for the sake of community, and ideas for how to start addressing our own hearts before we judge the hearts of others. But most importantly, it’s a call for kingdom community, and that means messy conversations where we’re not afraid to say the wrong thing, and we won’t immediately shut someone down if it looks like they are trying to say the right thing, but mess up. Anyone who has been married knows that that’s basically the first 10 years of marriage: saying or doing something stupid and forgiving your spouse for saying or doing something stupid. The only option for lasting relationship is working through those awkward moments. So, we invite you into awkward moments. Why? Because the enemy is trying to divide us right now. Are we addressing our own hearts before we judge the hearts of others? #WeWillNotBeDivided Click To Tweet
And. We. Will. Not. Be. Divided.
**Normally we give brief notes for the website and more detailed notes for our patrons, but for this episode, we’ll going to give err’body err’thing. If you like the detailed notes for future podcasts, sign up on our Patreon page, and you’ll get all the goodies ery’time.
Also, as a follow up to this podcast, we are partnering with The Center for Biblical Unity and the All the Things show to bring you a discussion of critical race theory, and how to address these topics with our kids. Live conference is $20, and all proceeds go to the Center for Biblical Unity. Come early and mingle with other mama bears (including Hillary Morgan Ferrer!) There will be a live Q and A at the end. To register, click here.
SHOW NOTES for MBA Episode 51: WE WILL NOT BE DIVIDED: Grieving with those who grieve, and the necessary process of building kingdom community
“In a world gone mad…” It seems like we’re in a movie, but mama bears, this is real. It’s heartbreaking, and it’s raw. This is not something that Christians can avoid. We need to be able to talk about these issues. We live in community with one another, and we need to respect one another. Our hope here is to get the conversation started. We find what we have in common, and we are all united in Christ. We are all trying to live the gospel.
(8:15) A brief overview of why we’re having this conversation:
- (9:05) George Floyd in Minneapolis (May 25, 2020): Click here to view the disturbing video (fair warning, it is graphic). A man was being arrested for allegedly having a counterfeit $20. An officer was kneeling on his neck, and Mr. Floyd was saying he could not breathe. Mr. Floyd died. Since then, all four cops involved have been arrested.
- (12:40) Christian Cooper is a black man who was bird watching in New York City and had a confrontation with a white woman who called 9-1-1 to tell them he was threatening her (even though he wasn’t) (May 27, 2020) – Click here to view the video.
- (15:15) Breonna Taylor in Kentucky, a black woman was shot down and killed in her own home and committed no crimes (March 13, 2020) – Click here for an article about what happened to Breonna.
- (17:10) Ahmaud Arbery – a black man who was jogging, and he was pursued by three white men – Mr. Arbery was shot and killed (February 23, 2020) You can read more about that incident here.
- Hillary shared some things on her personal Twitter (@hillarymferrer)
- With video as a possibility, we are seeing more and more events being shown that we may never have seen.
(27:25) Problems on all sides:
- “We interrupt this book to offend everybody…” We all have biases, but we want to emphasize where we’ve been wrong.
- Ben Shapiro: “Facts don’t care about your feelings.”
- You may be uncomfortable, but we still need to discuss this.
- People who immediately try to explain away the black community’s anger –
- “How do we know it was race related?” or
- “There’s more fact to the story!” or
- “Wait till all the facts are in!”
- This is lazy and self-confirming. Don’t blow it off as an over-reaction.
- Look at all media outlets, not just one side. Get all the facts, first.
- Mississippi mayor, Hal Marx, who says “nothing wrong” with the video… he has since apologized.
- Derek Chauvin’s complaint: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.pdf
- (39:00) Not being able to distinguish between protestors and rioters (looters).
- (40:05) Not being able to distinguish between good and bad law enforcement.
- Some guys are there because they like power. We need to be able to weed that type of personality out of the force.
- BUT there are also good people who are police officers. We need to recognize that we should not be spreading vitriol against police officers.
- Don’t use the words always and never. We have to be careful with those words.
(43:40) How to respond:
- (45:20) LISTEN, be slow to speak and slow to correct (now is not the time).
- (46:12) Whatever your first reaction is, try doing the opposite.
-
- For example, if your first instinct to try and figure out a way that the cops really weren’t in the wrong? Why is that your first instinct? Does it prevent you from looking at the facts that ARE available, i.e. the video footage?
- Be slow to Tweet!
- (49:00) Be slow to react. Don’t become a puppet to potentially incorrect information.
- (50:00) Is your first reaction to make everything race related?
- Lincoln: If you look for the bad mankind, you’re going to find it.
- Show your kids things that are not on the news.
- There is a proper way to protest. Burning down a restaurant isn’t one of those ways.
- Unity of races coming together.
- (52:50) Go somewhere where you are the minority
- Understand white privilege.
- This would help build bridges.
We’re going to be covering this more in the incoming weeks, but we want to allow time to hear from our mama bears, of all races. Let’s start a conversation to start building bridges.
Resources Mentioned:
- Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning
- Center for Biblical Unity with Monique Duson (Facebook Page)
- Letter from a Birmingham Jail (Martin Luther King, Jr.)
Quotable Quotes:
- “We interrupt this book to offend everybody…”
- “We want to hear from all of our Mama Bears. We want to discuss this issue with you.”
- “Let’s unite over what we have in common. We share the gospel. We are united in Christ.”
- “Quench the flames. Be a part of the conversation.”
Although we want everyone to participate in this conversation, we want this to be a respectful dialogue. We reserve the right to delete comments that are not helpful or simply attacks.

Hillary Morgan Ferrer is the founder of Mama Bear Apologetics. She is the chief author and editor of Mama Bear Apologetics: Empowering Your Kids to Challenge Cultural Lies and Mama Bear Apologetics Guide to Sexuality: Empowering Your Kids to Understand and Live Out God’s Design. Hillary has her masters in Biology and has been married to her husband, Dr. John D. Ferrer, for 15 years. Don’t let her cook for you. She’ll burn your house straight to the ground.
I wish Christians would get away from the word race. It is influenced by a Darwinian view instead of the fact that we are all brothers and sisters through Noah, just as no person is truly the color black or the color white, but various shades of brown. I understand those are the terms used today but I prays it changes in my children’s lifetime.
If anyone is looking for an in-depth conversation on this issue I highly recommend checking out this podcast by Darrell Harrison.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/just-thinking-podcast/id1328733796?i=1000466026565
There are not “white bears and bears of color:….there are simply bears. There are people with free choice, the ability to choose good or evil. The ten commandments are lost as basic principles of life that were generally accepted by many people. Sin is the problem. Roman’s 1…suppression of the truth.
We need to get back to what is true and what does the Bible say about it.
We are seeing the manifestation of what exists in the hearts and minds of all these people, disregarding authority,
abusive authority, excuses to do what was already within them.
We can pretend this is about the color of our skin, but it is more about loving darkness instead of light.
Andrea,
I actually agree with that. Unfortunately, I don’t think Mama Bear is a big enough operation yet to totally change the cultural lingo and have people understand what we are talking about. We will keep that in mind for how we can encourage productive dialogue without contributing to the problem via language. Thank you for your feedback! – HMF
Amber, I agree with you as well! The reason why we specifically included that is because there are many of our black brothers and sisters who feel like the white community is asking them to teach them everything. There is also a group who teaches that whites cannot speak up unless it is to grovel and apologize for their whiteness. We wanted to make sure that we were specifically and explicitly inviting all to the conversation. But I agree with you! We are all mama bears! Thank you for standing up for unity!
It made me sad to see so many friends blindly retweet or repost without taking the time to think. Now is not the time to divide. My family is one of two races. My children are a beautiful shade of caramel. I pray that one day, no one is characterized by the color of their skin but the contents of their character. You can multi-task. We can rebuke abusive people in authority, abhor violence, and LOVE all people because they are Imago Dei. This can and should happen within the church, unified. This is a sin problem. We must remember that.
Preach sister!
Such a well done episode! It brought me to tears.
I will confess I yelled at you guys once when you were talking about the clueless mayor. That town is about an hour from where I live, so I was yelling, “Mississippi!!! Petal, Mississippi!!!” LOL!
Thank you for the synopsis of those other cases, I’d heard the names, but hadn’t really looked into what actually happened. And I greatly appreciated the examples of things POC have to teach their children that those who are white don’t. I would like to hear more of those examples. I think that really brings home the idea of what “White Privilege” really is and exactly what POC are facing.
Thank you for such a balanced approach to such sensitive topic. I look forward to hearing future podcasts on this subject.
Ha! We even tried to look it up when we were talking about it! I didn’t want to misspeak! Thanks for bringing that up. 🙂 Our editor might have taken out us going “Where was that? I don’t want to say the wrong place! OH, here it is!” Apparently we got a bad news source. :/
Thank you for a well-done conversation. I have cried and verbally responded with “No! Why?!” as I watched posted videos and listened to 9-1-1 recordings. Yes, it IS very hard to watch. But thankfully, we HAVE video evidence, so that many more people can know how senseless these murders are. I pray that our united voices will be heard, and that our Police will speak up against any evil they encounter within the Department. I pray for their courage to do so.
Dear Mama Bears,
I have really appreciated your book and passed copies on to several friends. I was looking forward to hearing what you had to say about the bigger perspective of the racial issues going on recently. Although I appreciate some of the points you made about the real problem in the hearts of people, (which I agree needs much work and change) I was disappointed that you glossed over the issues that all of the people listed as victims had some type of criminal activity going on. Even though we grieve the death of people under these overall unjust circumstances, I don’t think it is very discerning to give so much attention and honor to those who were breaking the law and resisting law enforcement. Humanity thrives when law and order are upheld, and making “heroes” of those who disobey isn’t justice either. I also think that putting so much emphasis on these situations distracts from other core issues that truly are unjust and worth grieving and honoring. (Such as murders and other situations not covered by the media) You’re on the right track with much of your thinking, but sometimes even deeper discernment is necessary. I think we should be more discerning of the bigger message the media are trying to push by how and what they cover and don’t cover- some of which I think, sadly, is destructive and increasing racial tensions, among other problems. – God bless you and I pray for you and your ministry!
We can’t just ignore race. God allowed it, created the dna that allows us to be different and have different cultures. When we can acknowledge this is so, we can really glorify God in that ONLY He can unify us! I have no expectation that all my kids be the same, even though we are one family. It seems that is how God is to some degree since our races and languages are still apparent in heaven according to Revelations. Our culture wants sameness and struggles with how to allow our differences. Politics and behavior can’t unify us. Only God can.
Also, there is a huge perception problem on both sides. On the white side, there is a problem with how we see our black sister’s struggles. On the black side there is also a perception problem. Statistics and facts don’t back up their fears of police brutality. Of course, it sometimes happens, but it is not the widespread problem that the megaphones are yelling about. I wonder, as a mom of biracial kids, how to help our children live in boldness and courage, not fear. I don’t plan to pass the baton of racial fear to them.
Though not offended this episode did disappoint me. 1) It felt hypocritical for you to encourage your listeners to not make statements or tweets about “hot stories” before doing the research. Given the time of George Fllyod’s murder and this podcast there hadn’t been any official trial take place. The official full story took over a year to be released. I am curious if you amend any of your opinions now? 2) While some of your examples listed were clearly about racism, what about the video implied the officer was a racist? It felt as if you looked through headlines and picked stories that fit your narrative. While some were valid, I don’t were fair. Have you done research to see how many violent arrests or fatal shootings have been white cops against black perpetrators? Do you hold the data to support your claims? I would encourage you to do research before you push the narrative that there is a history or even a surge of racist law enforcers arresting and killing blacks. 3) You mentioned encouraging white people to seek out black friends. I have no issue with this. But I was disappointed you didn’t encourage black people to make white friends; in an effort to encourage the black community not all white’s are racist. 4) While George Flloyd’s was indeed murdered in a horrific and preventable way, the way that the media covered this story glorified his skin color and a man who was considered a criminal. No skin color should be elevated above another. But sinful or unlawful behavior should not be condoned because someone “is a victim of their skin color”. // I love so much of what MBA has to share with world but I feel this episode aided in racial divide and pushed a false narrative about our white (or any color) law enforcers.